A sign of ignorance, I hope
Remember this?
It gets better, folks. :(
Last Shabbat/Sabbath, not only did one of our members order a cake from a local non-kosher bakery, she also mentioned that she'd ordered it on Shabbat morning itself! I can only hope that she doesn't realize that one is not supposed to use, or even carry, money on Shabbat, barring a major medical emergency.
It gets better, folks. :(
Last Shabbat/Sabbath, not only did one of our members order a cake from a local non-kosher bakery, she also mentioned that she'd ordered it on Shabbat morning itself! I can only hope that she doesn't realize that one is not supposed to use, or even carry, money on Shabbat, barring a major medical emergency.
posted by Shira Salamone at 12:48 PM
8 Comments:
Does your shul have a ritual committee? A ritual VP? A Kitchen committee? A rabbi? If so, this is between them and the woman who called the bakery, and even then, only if she ordered the cake for the shul and not for herself.
I don't see how this is a topic for public airing on the internet.
Yes, yes, no, and yes for the next few weeks (we can no longer afford a rabbi and have not renewed his contract). Yes, she ordered the cake for the shul, and was not very happy that I wouldn't take a slice for myself.
"I don't see how this is a topic for public airing on the internet." That's a thought that I should have concerned. I'll have to decide whether to delete this post.
When I do posts of this general sort, I usually say something like "This happened at one of the 3 synagogues I teach for ...." or "at a high school near me ...."
Shira,
Well, if she ordered the cake on Shabbat, then one of three things occurred.
1. It is an older cake, possibly Kosher -- we don't know without supervision, in which case you are deriving benefit from her desecrating the Sabbath AND doing so to eat stale cake, a silly sin IMO. If the cake was Kosher and bought on Shabbat, you might be permitted to eat it an hour after Shabbat (when there was time permitting to event to occur after Shabbat), but I only know that that applies to a desecration by a non Jew for your benefit, check with a Rav on applicability here. Still, in that case, the cake is stale, best not to eat stale cake as it doesn't taste good. :)
2. The cake was baked by a Jew on Shabbat -- you are never permitted to eat it.
3. The cake was baked by a non-Jew on Shabbat for the exclusive benefit of Jews, which I believe renders it non-Kosher.
I find it situations like that, it's best to just say no thank you and grab some cut up vegetables, it's healthier anyways. :)
Wait, let me get this straight. You are chiding a member of your congregation, who acted consistently with the level of kashrut approved by the congregation, because the result does not meet with your personal standard (regardless of how this might relate to any objective standard of kashrut)?
Is this a way in which you want to be judged? I can't seem to get over the fact that you are perfectly willing to challenge prevailing Orthodox standards on numerous issues, but can't tolerate a challenge to your own standards.
We know you don't like the standards adopted by your congregation. But somehow I don't think you have the right to belittle someone who elects to adhere to them.
For someone who frequently apologizes for her own lack of learning, you seem a little to eager to attack someone who might have even less.
End of rant. Sorry.
"Is this a way in which you want to be judged? . . . We know you don't like the standards adopted by your congregation. But somehow I don't think you have the right to belittle someone who elects to adhere to them."
Ouch. Fair enough. Shutting my big mouth now. I may actually have to claim to be dieting, as I've already been quite public about refusing to eat cake without a hechsher in shul: It was the congregant herself who insisted that I could eat a small slice--I hadn't said a word.
However, while the Ritual Committee has, indeed, voted to allow dairy cakes from bakeries not under rabbinic supervision, the Ritual Committee has never authorized congregants to purchase food for the synagogue on Shabbat.
To be fair to the congregant, and as the title of this post indicates, I suspect that this may have been a case of "sheh-eino yodeiah lish'ol" (rough translation: not knowing that there's a question that one needs to ask). To the best of my recollection, this question has never been discussed in the Ritual Committee, presumably because it was assumed that our congregants already understand that they couldn't shop for the shul on Shabbos. Famous last words. :(
"For someone who frequently apologizes for her own lack of learning, you seem a little to eager to attack someone who might have even less."
Double ouch. That's yet another one for my Al Chet (Sins) list. :(
Did she order the cake for the kiddush after the morning service? Even though she doesn't follow the law of Shabbat about not spending or carrying money on shabbat doesn't mean she should violate Shabbat or the rituals of a shul by ordering a cake on shabbat inside the shul. If she is going to order the cake on Shabbat anyways she shouldn't do it inside of shul!
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